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Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by Krux on Saturday June 16, 2012 @ 07:27pm
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This is an interesting story:

Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?

A Texas grand jury must decide whether to charge a father who killed a man after finding the man molesting his 5-year-old daughter. Does deadly force extend to a father protecting his daughter?

By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / June 16, 2012

In Shiner, Texas, there's little doubt among residents that a 23-year-old man who reportedly killed a man he found molesting his 5-year-old daughter in a horse barn should be hailed as a hero, not denounced as a criminal.


Yet some legal experts question why the father hasn't yet been arrested and charged with murder, saying vigilante justice, no matter how the circumstances come about, can't be tolerated in a civil society.

A Texas grand jury will have to deal with those questions next week as it takes a deeper look at the circumstances of the killing, and whether the father was justified in hitting the man so hard with his fists that he died.

In most jurisdictions, according to "Criminal Law," a widely used textbook, the use of fists in defense if there are no other weapons present is automatically an example of reasonable force. But in this case, were emotions an extenuating circumstance that caused the angry dad to go too far? More broadly, when is a person in a defensive fight required to stop?

"Assuming it's true that this guy was molesting the daughter ... he would then have the right to defend her and hit him enough to have him stop," James Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, told Foxnews.com. "But you cannot summarily
execute him, even though I can understand the anger he would have."

He added: "The question is: When does it move beyond self-defense?"

And there's another quirk to the case, suggests radio talk show host Geraldo Rivera, a lawyer.

"If he had a weapon and he used it to stop a sexual assault, he would not be indicted, but, ironically, the fact that he didn't have a weapon leaves him more legally vulnerable than otherwise he would be," Mr. Rivera told Bill O'Reilly Friday on Fox News. "In this case, you grab him off, now you've stopped the sexual assault, but now what are you doing? At what point does prevention of the sex assault become revenge, the implementation of vigilante justice?"

So far, the court of public opinion has stood steadfastly behind the father.

"Any father would have done that," Michael James Veit, a neighbor, told CNN on Thursday. "Everybody is saying the father is justified."

The killing happened last Saturday, according to Lacava County Sheriff Micah Harmon, after the man's daughter had gone to a barn to feed the family's chickens, and then began screaming.

When the father ran to investigate, he found a man described as a family acquaintance, a horse groomer, sexually abusing the girl. Police have not released any names, in part to protect the girl's identity, and, in the case of the man who was killed, because they have not yet located his relatives in Mexico.

According to the county coroner, the man died of blunt force trauma to the head and neck. Eyewitnesses arrived to see the alleged molester already on the ground, not moving. The girl was taken to a hospital, where she was treated and released for minor injuries.

While police continue to investigate, they have so far found no reason to disbelieve the man's story. The dad "had remorse," says Sheriff Harmon. "It wasn't his intent [to kill anybody]. He was protecting his daughter and doing what he thought he had to do to protect his daughter."

Despite the dad's potential legal liability, Rivera said, most American jurors -- given the facts as known at the moment -- would agree with Harmon.


Personally I feel it's totally justified. The father in this case did nothing wrong. End of story.

<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by voltaic on Wednesday June 20, 2012 @ 08:11am
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This is timely.

Grand jury: No indictment against father who killed daughter's alleged abuser
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/19/us/texas-abuser-father/index.html

A Lavaca County, Texas, grand jury did not return an indictment against a father who killed a man he found allegedly sexually abusing his daughter, officials said Tuesday at a press conference in Hallettsville, Texas.

"The substantial amount of evidence showed that the witness statements and the father's statement and what the father had observed was in fact what had happened that day," Lavaca County District Attorney Heather McMinn told reporters.

[...]

McMinn told CNN she had "never seen a case this clear" in her career.


"it's good that they shop and spend and camp out waiting for the great deal to save $5 on a toaster." - Stealth


<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by Caliber on Tuesday June 19, 2012 @ 06:39pm
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Assuming that the current discussion of this case includes all the true pertinent data:

Yes, he should be tried for murder. Should he be acquitted, he should have the right to sue the estate of the deceased for costs and damages.

I admit I would gladly...GLADLY face jail or worse to avenge my baby girl and punish the perpetrator. Vengeance from my hand in this situation would have been deliberate, slow, and horrible. But to say that it is anything less than vengeance is a fine case of self-delusion. We live in a society where we have to live by the law, not by what is necessarily right.

A martyr must face the consequences of "good" acts versus "lawful" acts and realize that doing the vengeful act will force having to deal with the repercussions. It is the responsibility of his peers to ensure justice prevails.

This is all very good in theory. In practice, I hope he walks and they let him use the guy's head as a grim trophy. I can only hope that the story is exagerated. The tortures endured by the little girl in this story should be inconceivable. No future in which this happens is of any value.

As one acts and conducts himself, so does he become. The doer of good becomes good. The doer of evil becomes evil. One becomes virtuous by virtuous action, bad by bad action.

--Veda Upanishads


<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by unicron on Tuesday June 19, 2012 @ 10:46pm
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Assuming that the current discussion of this case includes all the true pertinent data:

Yes, he should be tried for murder. Should he be acquitted, he should have the right to sue the estate of the deceased for costs and damages.

I admit I would gladly...GLADLY face jail or worse to avenge my baby girl and punish the perpetrator. Vengeance from my hand in this situation would have been deliberate, slow, and horrible. But to say that it is anything less than vengeance is a fine case of self-delusion. We live in a society where we have to live by the law, not by what is necessarily right.

A martyr must face the consequences of "good" acts versus "lawful" acts and realize that doing the vengeful act will force having to deal with the repercussions. It is the responsibility of his peers to ensure justice prevails.

This is all very good in theory. In practice, I hope he walks and they let him use the guy's head as a grim trophy. I can only hope that the story is exagerated. The tortures endured by the little girl in this story should be inconceivable. No future in which this happens is of any value.

We were watching the news at work today and I heard the 911 call for the first time. The guy isn't trying to act tough or come off as a bad ass. He's crying and screaming at the 911 operator to hurry up with the ambulance. He's a normal guy that just snapped. I hope they take this into consideration during the proceedings.

That said, he's in Texas. He's not going to jail.

-unicron

winner of the forgot his fucking password the most times award


<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by unicron on Sunday June 17, 2012 @ 09:33am
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Hey man, nice shot.

Father of 2 daughters. On Father's Day. Good for him, as Volt said, one less fucker on the streets. Good to think he might have saved another father the torment.

-unicron

His future is darker than Sylvia Plath listening to Morrissey while watching a puppy freeze to death during a lunar eclipse at her parents' Potter's Field funeral.


<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by voltaic on Saturday June 16, 2012 @ 07:32pm
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One less dirtbag in the world. The DA knows that there isn't a jury in Texas that will convict this guy, though I can see it coming up as a case study in academia.

"it's good that they shop and spend and camp out waiting for the great deal to save $5 on a toaster." - Stealth


<< Re: Is Texas dad who killed man to protect his 5-year-old daughter a criminal?
Posted by Krux on Saturday June 16, 2012 @ 08:41pm
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One less dirtbag in the world. The DA knows that there isn't a jury in Texas that will convict this guy, though I can see it coming up as a case study in academia.

Oh yea, especially in Texas. So take the same case, and place it in California.

"Online petitions totally effect social change." -- voltaic


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